Major BF problem feeling really crap - update pg 2

[Daffodil]

Hi

Meadow didn't latch from birth and I didn't produce colostrum....seriously none coming out ....

So 24-48 hours after birth MW said she was jaundiced and introduced formula via a syringe.

Since then I've done everything I can to increase supply and have got *some* milk but hand expressing seems to yeild only about 2ml

Pump expressing looks like nothing coming out

I'm hiring an electric pump in desperation to increase supply.

In the meantime Meadow has learned that at feeding times milk just pours down her throat and now isn't sucking at the breast....because she sucks maybe twice and then cos there is no milk coming out straight away she just pulls away and cries.

I really need advice and help.

I have spoken to NCT breastfeeding counsellor and she says increase supply using the electric pump and then keep encouraging Meadow to latch and suck....

I'm feeling really rubbish about it and really really tired...this week has been so challenging.

Any advice would be appreciated. I really want to breastfeed my baby - so much.

Dawn
x

 

[fothers]

I am by no means an expert so someone else might have more ideas but what about giving her most of the amount you are going to feed her then putting her on to suckle so she is less hungry and more happy to work at it a while?

Also try and spend tomorrow in bed with her for lots of skin to skin, drink lots and lots of water and make sure you eat plenty too.

Although you aren't getting much with a pump when she gets the hang of suckling she will be much more efficient than one anyway.

These 2 sites have lots of info on BFing that might help-

http://www.kellymom.com/
http://www.llli.org/resources.html

Good luck

 

[monster_munch]

first of all, don't feel crap, it's not your fault, it's just down to an unfortunate set of incidences
Totally agree with fothers, give her some of the syringe milk to satisfy her then try feeding her yourself, maybe spend the day in bed with her, skin to skin. It will take time and a lot of patience, from you and meadow!
Best of luck chick xx

 

[Daffodil]

Thanks!

Those website links are great too.

I'm finding co-sleeping difficult because I'm getting paranoid about it. I've hurt my pelvic bone in labour and so can't lie on my side - but she has to lie on her back right? So if i'm lying on my back and so is she, we don't get skin to skin...

Also when she on my chest skin to skin sounds silly but I worry about her overheating.

Any suggestions for this too?

Thanks
Dawn
x

 

[Squiglet]

Your baby doesn't need to be sleeping on her back if you are feeding her... For some reason, bf'd babies and bfing mothers are aware of each other in bed... They keep each other awake, so you sense her being there and she sense the milk close by. She won't sleep deeply preventing SIDS and you know shes there preventing you from rolling on top of her.

Also the over heating aspect, no one knows why but studies have shown that a mothers skin changes temperature to accommodate a baby's temperature and the baby's internal thermometer that isn't quite developed yet, "learns" and responds to the mothers body temp, so babies might sweat or shiver, which they wouldn't otherwise do if they weren't on their mums. Basically mothers weren't meant to be separate entities from their babies after birth until they reach 6 months...

As for the latching on part...you need to just keep putting her to the breast all the time, not worry about feeding times and the like.... drop all that, pop her on the breast as often as possible and only after she has had a good go with the boob, give her the formula.

 

[fothers]

I didn't co-sleep all the time right from the start but when I did I lay on my back with her on my chest and my arms over her.

I am sure she won't overheat- don't worry too much about that- have a fleecy blanket over the pair of you something like that.

Let us know how you get on


Also if you have time maybe look into oats and fenugreek online as they are supposed to help milk supply.

 

[Daffodil]

hnmmm

was the baby face down on your chest?

Interesting stuff about body temperature...

Currently she isn't breastfed because up until now I've not been able to 1. produce enough and 2. get her to latch and suck so if I co-sleep it isn't as though we're exclusively breastfed....she is formula fed right now until I get sorted.

On the plus side I just expressed 20ml...more than before and it made my confidence increase

Dawn

 

[Laur_250]

Hi, Firstly some I know its hard, but....

Ive posted recently about this, my baby was bottle fed my expressed milk up until recently, I kept trying him on breast but he was too used to the teat and ease of bottle feeding so it never worked. I started using nipple shields as that way he thought it was a teat in his mouth and could suck from breast, then after another try he suddenly started breastfeeding properly at 6 weeks old

So it just goes to show that its not the end of breastfeeding if your baby isn't latching on now, once she gets older and her suck is better as long as you keep trying her on the breast like I did, she can still learn.

I'm sure once you start pumping more your milk will increase and once it does that will also help as I found that the time I had milk on the end of my nipple as my breasts were so full, that was when he latched on as he tasted a bit when I put his mouth there. I used the medela swing pump which I found just as good as the hospital ones I had tried.
If you want any more advice just ask me. xx

 

[LisaJ1986]

When i was in hospital after having Angel, my MW encouraged me to squeeze my boob first, like hand express, just to get some milk to sit on the nipple. Then let it touch her lips so she knows it's there and will suck it off. She told me to keep practising this throughout the day and she'll soon figure out that milk comes from here. You've started the process for her, rather than her sucking for a couple of times and nothing happening, the process has already started for her, iykwim?

 

[happy-chick]

Aww hun, it sounds like your doing everything you can to increase your supply and you've just had an unfortunate time of it leading to these problems. If you persist then Meadow will eventually learn to suckle and hopefully increase your supply too, good luck & no matter what happens you've tried your best xx

 

[Daffodil]

Thanks everyone

Reggies'

Thanks for your experience it feels good to know its possible. I will try to build up supply like you suggest.

Lisa

Good suggestion re milk on nipple - and as has been said - she'll probably suck better when the milk flows better.

QUESTION: I got 20ml earlier on pump. just now I tried again and got 5ml. I presume this is just because my body hasn't had time to make more? Its been about 4 or 5 hours since last expressing attempt.

Dawn
x

 

[BabyMagic]

Sorry to hear that you have been trouble with breastfeeding

Well done for giving it your best!!! How often do you keep expressing/getting your baby to suckle? At the beginning you would need to keep doing that far more often than every 4 to 5 hours? I remember that my LO was literally stuck on my boobs for the first few days.

When it comes to co-sleeping I have always had LO's head at the same level with mine. I only have a flat pillow and it's far from LO's head (only that these days she snuggles up to the pillow when in bed with me but she is older than your LO).

I found this website useful http://www.babycentre.co.uk/baby/sleep/ ... ingsafely/

Keep up the good work

 

[Sherlock]

My suggestion re expressing would be to keep expressing little and often. Do as a newborn baby would as they feed little and often to help build the supply. Leaving it 4 hours is too long. Its possibly having the opposite effect and not producing. The more you express the more likely your supply will increase.

At birth baby has a tummy about the size of a walnut so it doesn't take much to fill it. And the breastmilk digests quickly. So even if you only get a few ml off each time, express as often as you can, at least every 2 hours I'd say. If not more. My LO would feed for an hour have ten minutes off and be back on the boob. I know you can't do that but I'd aim for 10 minutes expressing every hour. And do one boob each time so as to keep the demand up. As it increases then start trying again with LO on the boob. Milk should start flowing a bit more easily then.

Also if your LO is liking the bottle teats because they flow too easily then change them and get slower flowing ones so she *has* to work harder to get the milk from them. If she doesn't have to work to get the milk from the bottle of course she will prefer that. Slow flowing teats and nipple shaped if you can find them so as to get the correct sucking motion to encourage her when she is on your boob. Flat teats are not very good if you are trying to breastfeed IMHO. You really don't want to make it too easy that she won't bother to breast feed as its effort.

I'd suggest the oats and fenugreek. Also lots of skin on skin and cuddles in bed. And offer the boob first before the bottle. Stimulate your nipple before offering it and see if you can get the flow going a bit with your hands first then try to get her to latch. Also rubbing your nipple on her cheek will encourage rooting. Keep doing this and hopefully instinct will kick in and she will look for your nipple.

Good luck.

 

[Daffodil]

Thanks Sherlock

Every 2 hours I don't know how I will fit that in .... LOL

So my plan is this:

1. Express every 2 hours
2. Feed expressed milk via bottle
3. Look at getting a suitable teat as suggested
4. Get some nipple shields
5. Breastfeed!

Dawn

 

[Natural mamma]

All the above is excellent advice....To increase milk supply try Urticaria urens 30c take three times a day for three days homepathic remedy available from Helios they do next day delivery...It has worked for countless mums....if it doesn't work try Pulsatilla. I am a student of Homeopathy so PM if you need more info goodluck

 

[kalia]

DD has had exclusively expressed breast milk for nearly 18 weeks now so here are some tips from my now expert expressing opinion

To build supply you have to express more often. I always had a good supply when expressing and every 2 hours would have made things a bit crazy for me. I expressed every 4 hours to maintain my supply, every 3 hours to build it. If she was needing more milk when feeding you would be told to feed her every 3 hours so this is probably best for you. If you can manage every 2 hours that's great but it's probably unrealistic with looking after a baby.

For the first couple of months you will have to express during the night too. This can be very tiring I found my mind would wonder because I was tired and I would stop expressing. An electric pump means you don't have to think about it, you just have to hold it there. Express every 4 or 5 hours at night. Express just before bed and set your alarm if you will need it (if baby will be up every 2 hours you may not need it ) OH would feed DD while I expressed.

To build your supply you need to tell your body it's not producing enough. Express all you can from one breast, then the other, go back to the first and keep alternating between them. Even if all you manage is one squirt it's still telling your breasts that you're looking for that bit extra.

To get the best possible flow, hold the pump against the breast with one hand and with the other massage/squeeze/hand express the breast. Leaning slightly forward also helps.

Your breast and the bit the breast goes against on the pump must both be dry. Sometimes this means holding a muslin against your breast until you're almost in position and the quickly taking it away. Any moisture ruins the seal, means the suction isn't as good and often means the milk escapes and it can get very messy!

I have way more milk first thing in the morning than later on. This is because I have been sleeping. I will have more milk after a nap too. Rest is really important for your supply. The more you can rest and sleep, the more milk you will produce.

You have to drink lots and eat too. If I don't drink enough I don't have as much milk. I also feel really rubbish and my eyes are sore in the morning.

Hot baths and showers are great to get the milk flowing. Express straight after.

Clean your nipples each day with a cloth and rub at them - milk dries in and I clean tiny flakes out. I don't know if they block anything from coming out but you want to make sure they're clean anyway.

If sterilising the breast pump is getting a bit crazy you can put it in a sterile container in the fridge and just clean and sterilise it a couple of times a day but that means expressing with a cold pump which is unpleasant and counter productive for increasing supply.

In my experience, if I went away for the weekend and didn't express as often (leaving 6 hours between expressing) my supply would drop. It would take a week of trying to increase my supply (every 3 ours in the day, every 4 or 5 hours at night) before it was up to what it was. Now I can leave bigger gaps between expressing (up to 12 hours as long as the next few expresses have a gap of 4 or 5 hours) without losing my supply but that's only been the case for the last month or so I think.

You can only do this with the help and support of others. If you are at home on your own you will probably not be able to keep up with all the expressing and looking after baby. The most important thing for Meadow is that you are happy. If you can't keep expressing every few hours, just do it as often as you can. If you have to stop half way through to see to her then that is what you must do. I express for between 4 and 6 hours a day. If OH wasn't at home there is no way I would be able to do this and to be honest DD would be on formula by now. I know you're just looking to do this for the short term to increase your supply so perhaps there is someone you can ask for help if OH is not around all the time.

Good luck!

 

[flowergirl]

Kalia- your advice is really useful. I am trying to express frequently to build up stocks for when LO starts nursery in October. I have had much the same experience as you with times of day, rest and eating and drinking enough affecting my supply. I liked your advice about tricking your boobs into producing more by swapping over a few times- I will try this today as I've not expressed since Friday due to being away and I know my supply will be down.

Daffodil- I hope things pick up for you. I really feel for you. The advice offered is excellent and the support you will receive from the girls on this forum is second to none. I wish you all the best xxx

 

[kalia]

I thought my last post covered everything but I've thought of more

Once I have emptied a breast it is all squishy. If after expressing any part feels firm that means there is more milk in there. If I keep the breast pump on, even if I'm getting nothing, and maybe hand express at the same time usually within a few minutes it comes squirting out

Lastly, make sure your bra isn't too tight as that will reduce the amount of milk you produce.

 

[Urchin]

Hope things are going better, everyone has given great advice I just want to repeat how important it is to DRINK LOADS, whenever I feel my supply is going down a bit I drink a few pints of water or squash in a day and I can really tell the difference.
I also have a pint of milk every night before bed, but thats mainly cos it goes so well with choccy biccys LOL

 

[floppit]

There's so much good advice here already - all I can really offer is a hunch that some folk might agree with.

Even though it isn't skin to skin I'm so sure that wearing Freya helped me BF. It's close cuddle time, we smell each other and when I wear her and she gets hungry I feel my nipples yell to feed her. I don't know if it would be possible with your pelvic bone injury but if it is then carrying is a pleasure and a bonding thing anyway - maybe it helps BF'ing? I think it helped me.